Hayley Williams Interviews Elke: On Divine Urge, Shape-Shifting & Being Horny for Longing

When Hayley Williams declares someone her “favorite artist,” you best pay attention. Meet Kayla Graninger, the Nashville based singer-songwriter better known as Elke, who also happens to be one of Williams’ closest friends.

To define Elke’s music would be doing it a disservice. “I've always believed that everything you do is one song, and you're completely different in each of those phases,” she tells NYLON. “I like to think of them as they're all in the same pool, but I will always feel really different because my personality always needs to change. I always need to break through a new wall, and that will always make everything feel so different, but it's because I'm choosing that.” Her latest release, Divine Urge, out now, is a powerhouse album that plays to the greatest strengths of her already-lengthy discography. “I basically want other people to experience freedom,” she says of her listeners. “The impression is I want people to do anything that their mind wants to do, just have no hesitation, and know that all ideas are cool ideas. Be vulnerable, and sound stupid, look dumb. Just go out and try everything that you want to do.”

Here, Williams sits down with her pal (Graninger is also in a relationship with Paramore drummer Zac Farro, who shot the photos for this story) to discuss everything from personal style (“a collage”) to committing to staying still — with an all-timer “Would You Rather?” thrown in for good measure.

I want to just start super basic, because I don't even think I know this, but at what age did you start making this album, Divine Urge, and how old are you right now?

I was 28 when I started making it. And today, I'm 31. That's a great question, because I feel like when artists release music, it’s like they’re the age they are on the release day, but it could have been years before that that they were writing about all the stuff they were writing about.

I'm such fan of everything you've already made, and this record, to me, is your best work. Your writing on it is crazy, and you made this record with one of my favorite music artists Jake, aka Louis Prince, who had my actual favorite album of 2020. So this album is like two of my actual favorite artists coming together to maximize their joint slay. What’s a moment you had making this album where his creativity really unlocked something for yours?

It was probably day one that we even got to the studio together. It happened so instantly, and it wasn't necessarily something musical that he did. It was just an energy he had. I think some people were just meant to work with each other. You can always grow together as people who were together, but he's so talented he could kind of do anything. So if you give him an idea, he'll just be like, "Yes," not like, "Well, I kind of have this one idea." He has no preciousness towards any one thing. It's more of a flow. I think that's really what the answer to that question is, it's just his ability to flow.

I want to talk about the latest single, “Hide In Heaven.” I read an early post you made about the lyrics having to do with the anxiety of anticipating trouble, or even feeling in trouble in some way. You run or hide from it and when the moment passes, you realize you’ve made something giant out of something so small. I relate so hard but would never put it the way you’ve done in this song. It’s brilliant. Can you just talk about this part of your brain for a second? And the metaphors and analogies used?

The images came first. There's a line, "Heaven aimed gun then a blank shot, daddy," which came from a dream I had where I was lined up to start sprinting a 100-meter dash, and then the ref shoots the gun, and I'm glued. Everyone's running in front of me, and I'm stuck there. I just woke up thinking, “Why do people shoot a gun towards the heavens, and there's just a blank shot?”

There were some other lines that started informing me realizing that I run from people. I was supposed to be running in the dream, and I couldn't, like I was scared… I guess that has just been such a very prominent feeling in my life, of feeling like I can't trust things, so it was kind of easy to build the world of what that feeling has looked like for so long.

I could talk about that song forever. It's just so great. OK, so kind of still in the world of these songs and what they're about, who is Wild Lucy?

Wild Lucy is a swan. We had a pet swan when I was a kid, and my mom got this swan because on our property, we had a pond, and geese would hang around the pond and just shit everywhere. I guess we went through different types of methods. My dad would kind of drive near them trying to freak them out. We got a dog, nothing worked. And my mom was at this garage sale one day, and the lady at the garage sale was like, "We're selling a swan."

Not from a garage sale.

My mom buys this swan from a garage sale, brings it home in the car. My bedroom is directly facing that pond, so I would see Lucy all the time. And if I'm being super honest, I was actually terrified of Lucy. My dad would go and feed her lettuce, and I was just really freaked out by her. Then she grows up and flies away. Everyone went on a search party for her, and then they found her, and she got eaten by coyotes. My mom found a field with just these feathers in it, and it was so heartbreaking.

I use Lucy as a metaphor for my grandmother, who was murdered when my mom was younger. Her name was Elke, which is where I get the name for this project. And the connection of that is just like there will always be this deep pain when something beautiful comes into your life that's just ingrained in you. It's one of the lines in the song, "This kind of magic that God calls family." And I mean that as in, like, it's pain, it's magic, and it's family. Lucy is kind of like this majestic thing that came and went in our lives.

This one's maybe an easy question, but melodies or words first for you?

I want to say words. I write words first, and then, as I write them, they have a beat to them. You know what I mean? It's like lyrics and rhythm at the same time, and then melody shortly after.

You’ve released so much good music under Elke. And yet, for some reason, to me this almost feels like another debut album. I wonder if you feel that on any level? If this is anyone’s first impression of you, what is the impression you hope to make with Divine Urge?

I think that every Elke thing I've ever released, I've always believed that everything you do is one song, and you're completely different in each of those phases. I like to think of them as they're all in the same pool, but I will always feel really different because my personality always needs to change. I always need to break through a new wall, and that will always make everything feel so different, but it's because I'm choosing that. It's all a part of this process that I'm choosing. If I see something that's like, "This is scary" or "This is something that feels like I shouldn't do it," I will do it.

That’s brave.

It's just a nature thing, though. I wouldn't even say, "I'm a rule breaker." It doesn't even feel like that. It just kind of feels like I'm not comfortable being chill and still. I just want to shake shit up.

This is not even in my questions, but you and I haven't gotten to talk about this a ton in our personal time. I wonder if what you're talking about also connects to the way you were brought up, moving around a lot and kind of new environments, and having to find yourself in that new space all the time.

A thousand percent. Even if I lived in the same town, we would move while we were in that town, and I'd have to switch schools. My environment was always changing. And then I moved to New York when I was 17, and I would switch apartments all the time, switch jobs, live with a boyfriend. It's ingrained in me because of that, 1000%. I am trying to slow that down in lots of ways. Never creatively — never in my creative or personal goal mind will I ever chill that out. But just in my surroundings, I'm like, "I just want to have the same f*cking group of friends that we do the rocking chairs on the porch when we're older. This house is my house. I don't want to move around a bunch like I have." I want to stay still in that way.

I wouldn't even say I'm a rule breaker... I just want to shake shit up.

That's good stuff for me to hear too, because I have trouble being still.

It's a tool to have a calm mind. Tools are sometimes heavy, and if you don't have something distracting you, I will just start thinking about everything and how I need to adjust it. "Maybe I could do this to be cooler. Maybe I could do this to be smarter." I don't want that anymore.

Damn, we could have so much therapy around like that. I need to call my therapist immediately after this conversation.

She should join the interview.

Let's say that this is for music fans that have never heard you before. So if you're making a first impression on a listener with Divine Urge, what's the impression ultimately that you would love to make?

I basically want other people to experience freedom. The impression is I want people to do anything that their mind wants to do, just have no hesitation, and know that all ideas are cool ideas. Be vulnerable, and sound stupid, look dumb. Just go out and try everything you want to do.

The first thing people notice when they see your photos or music videos, is your style. How did making Divine Urge influence the ways you express yourself through clothing or hair or makeup?

That's a great, very good question. This record helped me a lot to fully finally define what my style is. It all started when I saw a photo of Helena Bonham Carter. She wears stuff that doesn't fit her tightly. It almost kind of looks like a collage. I feel like my brain, in a way, is a collage of so many things. I feel like I am a little bit of everything in life in terms of personality, traits, and choices. And so I started thinking about what my style should feel like, and it's weirdly shaped and bits of randomness and playful, and sometimes hot as shit, sexy as f*ck, or manly as f*ck. It has helped me get to know myself more as that person who is kind of a bit of everything in life. I'm not cool, sweet, indie girl, or tall model, sexy girl, like something my mom wanted me to be, or just things that people expect me to be. I'm like, "F*ck it, I'm everything." It's made me feel more comfortable as a person too.

That's an exciting prospect to me, that you can accept that there might even be contradictory sides to yourself, and they go together. What do you dream of wearing while performing these songs?

Recently, I've been thinking about Anthony Kiedis a lot. First of all, I need to get ripped. I just need to get shredded because this is a part of my fashion, in a way. But I don't mean that in like, "I need to look incredible." It's because this record makes me feel very athletic. It makes me kind of want to be more athletic on stage. I literally tore my MCLs opening up for you in South America. So that athletic thing is for safety, but also for Anthony Kiedis. I thought I would wear cut-off suit shorts, and then just a tight compressed bra.

What influenced you as a child, as a teenager, and as an early 20-something living on her own, that still influences you today? Is there any such through line?

Longing, always longing.

Oh, man, I didn't think you were going to go there. Oh my God, that's why you're my favorite artist. F*ck. There's nothing like longing. Oh my God, I'm horny for it all the time.

I was on a bike ride the other night, and the sun was setting, and I'm actually getting really sad. I'm like, "I'm going to die. This world is f*cked. What am I even doing any of this for?" Then I was letting the feelings settle in, and I'm looking around in the sky, and I'm like, "Wow, something beautiful is forming. Nature is beautiful, and it's all for me." But jokes aside, I'm always questioning and wondering if what I'm doing is right. I think that's always going to be me, and I'll always find that beautiful, even if it's not 24/7, but I'm always chasing that.

There's nothing like longing. Oh my God, I'm horny for it all the time.

What is a brand-new-to-you influence that you are just now sinking your teeth into as an early-30-something?

I've discovered Fiona Apple, but I almost discovered her personality first and what she struggled with. I've recently been diagnosed with three different disabilities.

Do you want to talk about it?

Yeah. I have OCD, ADHD, and autism, and it's like if you have two, you have three. When I first got told it, I was like, "What the f*ck am I?" But it's been such a healing journey because it has given reason to all the things I've been dealing with on the inside. Because on the outside, it's very easy to be like, "I have a method for presenting myself in the world, and it's f*cking exhausting." And I am kind of learning how to embrace some of my weird quirks.And I think that has brought me closer to myself. And actually, in the title track, “Divine Urge,” there's a line "Racing to disorder, but I like it." I wrote that, and I kind of looked back on it, and I was like, "Did I diagnose myself?” I had a laugh about that after, because I got diagnosed after I wrote this record. And I think, to bring it back to Fiona, I love her style. She's kind of like a collage to me, too.

OK, we're rounding down to the final questions. And I want to say, we obviously met because you love my best friend in the whole world, Zac Farro. One of my favorite things is how you guys met. You actually met him while our band was on a hiatus. And you didn’t see him or us perform for years! Could you please tell the crowd how you guys met?

I met Zac at a time when I was not looking for anything whatsoever. Once we clicked, we were at a bar, and somehow, it's like we almost woke up from a haze of dreaming, and we're like, "Oh my gosh," and we hung out for days in New York City, and he called me Bubba. And I was maybe not going to go hang out with him the night after we hung out. And he called me, he's like, "How are you, Bubba?" And I was like, "Oh my God, I'm hanging out with you." The fact that he called, there was something about that.

So we ended up being inseparable. And what Zac has provided in my life has been things that I have had no idea how to do as a human. He's so good with people. He's so direct, and he's so honest. He taught me how to be a fuller person. And I learned all of this while madly falling in love with him at the same time.

You just lightning-bolted into our world. I mean, I remember saying to Taylor, and I remember saying to my mom, people that asked about this new girl that Zac's seeing, and I was like, "This one's going to be around." I feel like I've never not known you.

I feel the same way.

Final question: Give me your best “Would You Rather” that we can pose to the audience at home. Be as naughty as you want to be. I don't care.

Should I do the Santa one or no? Zac told me I shouldn't. He's nodding no. I wrote down one that feels like me, but it's not a zesty one: Would you rather be able to enter one of your favorite movies and hang out in the world and with the characters, or have deep, connected sex every day with someone who cares about you?

Oh, easy. Deep, connected sex every single day.

OK, I want to do the Santa one.

Let’s f*cking go.

Okay, so, NYLON, would you rather be stuck in a room — a comfortable room where you get fed and whatever — but you're stuck in this room with Santa Claus and neither of you guys can leave until both of you make each other cum, but you can't touch each other? Or would you rather have diarrhea for six weeks straight?

It's still a tough choice for me. All right. Good luck with that one, everyone, and buy Elke's record. I swear to God, it's the best thing. I'm so excited for everyone to hear it.

Hair and Makeup for Hayley and Elke: Brian O'Connor

Coloring: Zachary Gray

Photos: Zac Farro

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.